A Fellow Addict Needs your Input
From my Inbox:
Rabbi,
I was wondering if you can help me with my dilemma. I have been clean and sober for the past several months, and a active participant in AA and NA. I go to meetings regularly, and I have a lot of new friends in recovery. Things have been pretty good since I sobered up, but I always have the nagging feeling in the back of my mind that maybe after all I'm not an addict. I resent the fact that I can NEVER drink again. I resent the fact that I have to constantly introduce myself as an addict. I resent that my sobriety has to be measured by how many meetings I go to. I resent a lot of stuff I guess. My question to you is, how do I know that this is the only way for me to achieve a normal life. I am sure that before AA was invented 75 years ago, humans and especially Jewish people had other methods to conduct themselves healthily even as they were afflicted with the disease of addiction. Do you think there is something that I can do different that will help me stay sober without resenting it so much. I really want it, but as of now I'm miserable.
Thanks, T.M.
Before I reply to him, I was wondering what fellow recovering addicts have to say. I'm sure you have a lot of different opinions on this, let's hear it.
21 shares:
This my be dangerous advice, but sometimes you gotta just have the guts to 9lovingly) tell someone to leave and try it on their own.
Most of the time they'll just hit a new bottom and come crawling back into recovery.
We don't need to convince anyone that they are addicts. Their own life should make that abundantly clear to them. If they don't see it for themselves, how can they even do a 1st step?
So, Rabbi, I'd tell T.M. that if s/he isn't sure s/he belongs in AA, then leave and see what happens. If it all works out, then GREAT! And if not, well... we'll be waiting to welcome you back without judgment.
grateful 42day:
I think you're right. That IS dangerous advice. You don't DARE someone to leave recovery.
It sounds like TM knows he belongs in AA but just resents the hard work and imposition to his lifestyle.
It sounds like he needs to have more friends who are also in recovery. That makes it easier, at least for me it did.
What about working the program??? Going to meetings and having friends in recovery is not the program of AA. Working the 12 steps with a sponsor is. TM should start working the program, after he's done with the steps, he can reconsider....
sober jew:
If someone isn't sure they need to be in the program, they will NEVER be sure unless they try it on their own first.
Do you own stock in AA? Why should you care if he takes a breather for a while and tries to see how far he can get on self-will?
Grateful 42day:
You are saying the same thing my Sponsor said to me the first time I met with him. If your not sure then go out and drink, if you’re meant to be here, you will come back. I was at that point too scared to go out and drink again (I already had over a year of white knuckles under my belt and wasn’t willing to compromise.) I would tell TM the same thing. But if his resentments are not coming from sobriety they are coming from the actions he needs to take in AA, remind him that we don’t have a monopoly on sobriety. We just have the most successful and duplicable way to help people change their lives. I would just add that we are promised in the big book that if we follow the steps, our lives will be restored to sanity. It doesn’t say if you go to a meeting once in a while and talk about a step. This is a difficult program, which requires work. But the payoff is great. I say stick with it for a predetermined amount of time (90 days or whatever he finds reasonable). Do some serious work with a sponsor and if he is still miserable then reconsider. Its not just clean we strive for, It’s a changed life we are working towards.
The Big Book of AA tells us that sometimes people need to try controlled drinking or other forms of getting sober to realize they are true alcoholics. experience dictates this as well for those of us who have worked with people in the rooms and out of the rooms. moreover, if someone wants recovery no one can say the wrong thing and if they dont, know one can say the right thing. people we are people, we are not that powerful, we are not G-d.
With all due respect...
You guys are talking crazy!
What if you tell a person to go back out there and they DIE! Are you ready for that? Or they kill someone or do something else horrendous!
If this person wrote the question to the Rabbi, it means he's still WILLING to listen. Why tell him he just needs to hit a deeper bottom? The whole point of AA is that because of the first pioneers, WE no longer have to hit such low bottoms. We can learn from OTHER PEOPLE'S mistakes.
He should talk to some oldtimers who know what it's like to have been in prison and institutions.
i dont think anyone wants this person to go out and drink; i personally want them to recover; i hit bottom in AA - when i didnt drink and i didnt do the steps i soon was crazier than EVER! but until i heard someone share my story i didnt think i belonged in AA, i didnt think i was an alcoholic, i didnt need to do what other people had to do because i was different. i was too scared to leave AA and too unique to work the steps. then one day someone told my story at a meeting; maybe some one had told it a hundred times before and i was never able to hear it before, i dont know...no one knows what this person needs to get sober. i do know that if they choose to drink, its not on me or anyone else. they have been offered the tools that we have and they have a choice to use them or not. i dont know G-ds plans for this person anymore than anyone else does. i needed all my experiences to get here and stay here, i do know that. i also knwo that not everyone is able to get sober adn stay sober; there is no cut and dry answer here, that is the truth. if this person wants to explore other options they should but i can only speak for the success of myself and the record of AA and thats pretty good.
BTW, willing to ask and willing to listen are two different things.
Sarah S.
LOL!!!!!
It took me twelve years of coming in and out of the program to admit that i was an addict and my life was unmanagable. In that time i hit more bottoms than I knew I had. BUT, no one ever told me to go test the waters other than myself during that time. truth be told, I didn't want to stay clean when I first came back around this time. I went to meetings, hung out with people in NA, and DIDN'T USE. The clean time kept building up to where I wanted to be a part of the NA fellowship. Don't ever tell someone to leave the program, let them make that decision for themselves. If someone told me to test the waters when I had little clean time I probably wouldn't have twenty months today.
Maybe my memory is not so good, however I'm pretty sure that the book is fairly clear on this subject.
It says (and I have heard it at many meetings,and by old timers) If you are not sure that you are alcoholic then go try "controlled drinking"....
I think there is another way to test the waters here without drinking.
Ask yourself *(and be truely honest with yourself) "Do I know what is going to happen after I take that first drink"
If the answer is no, or you are even not sure- then I'm pretty sure you can start to get comfortable with the fact that you are an alcholic. Sorry for your luck.
When I came into program 22 years ago they kept telling me, "Keep coming back until you want to".
This is a "save your own ass program" Thankfully, the people that were around me knew enough to not try to spoon feed me the program. It was absolutely necessary for me to be the "seeker". To this day, that remains. I must want to live and have a wonderful life for myself and not expect others to rescue me.
I'm one of the lucky ones, I have an addiction and found a wonderful design for living in the 12 Steps.
shy1
I was at lunch and happened to have the thought that my last sentence might be taken the wrong way, so let me clarify.
"If the answer is no, or you are even not sure- then I'm pretty sure you can start to get comfortable with the fact that you are an alcoholic.LIKE THE REST OF US.. Sorry for your luck.
HI My name is Phil, and I am an alchoholic.
I am glad I found this blog.
I thought that i was the only Frum person in recovery. Of course I have heard otherwise but not seeing anyone in meetings as yet.
I have been going to AA meetings for about 5 weeks.
I am not sure but I think I would prefer a Frum sponsor.
I just feel there are issues that are understood by persons from the same community.
I was interested in hearing others opinions about this.
Part of me does not want a sponsor, but I am willing to try it.
I am not having problems so far in terms of considering drinking for the past 5 weeks.
But I understand that this disease is cunning and insidious, and I should not assume that I am untouchable.
Anyways, I am really happy I found you, so get used to me!
My sponsor is a goy and I like him just fine. I actually think that it's better for me to NOT have a Jew as a sponsor because part of my disease is the tendency to feel different than other people. Having a goy for a sponsor reminds me that I am really not so special. I am just another alcoholic like all the rest.
My sponsor is not Jewish either, and while I am not frum, I grew up in a religious household and know frum very well. I think that having a frum sponsor would help with understanding some things in our recovery like how we pray, and our costumes. But I like the fact that when we talk about spirituality, I am reminded that we don’t have a monopoly. There are many ways to skin the cat. "frum jew in recovery" if you would like to talk please feel free to email me at phishybass-at-hotmail.com and I will give you my phone number.
I will contact you. It's just that I had a conversation with someone in AA who is Jewish but not Orthodox ( he was brought up Orthodox)and I had said that I went to a AA meeting that would end after Shabbos started so since I was driving I had to leave early, and had no watch etc. and he was like, he just goes Friday night and drives because Sobriety comes first.
This is a conflict for me. Not that I am such a Tzadik in terms of Frumkeit, there are times when I am travelling that I can't be that bothered with some of the issues with modern hotels for example but when things are in place for me to experience Shabbos as I want then that is first for me.
I don't want to have these kinds of arguments with people regarding when I can or can't go to a meeting be it a Friday night, Shabbos afternoon, etc.
He upset me a bit as he is a sponser himself.
Another thing I am finding is a lot of these people in AA a long time have said that they don't find it easy to be a sponsor, that they feel obligated to do so.
So I feel wierd about it.
I do need a sponsor because I do have a continual problem at work, that is not affecting my sobriety but is affecting my well being and this makes it harder to go to meetings.
Because meetings are hard for me, not a picnic hearing some hard facts. like a man whose friend dies the other night from this disease, or the pain and anguihs of a drug addict who clearly is having a hard time remaining clean.
But I get alot out of going to meetings and wish to go most nights.
If you are observant or becoming more so, I would not recommed having a Jew who is not observant as a sponsor. A goy on the other hand is just fine. A goy has no problems with your religion. He will not tell you to drive to a meeting on Shabbos saying, "Sobriety comes first." He will understand that for you keeping shabbos is giving your life and will over to the care of G-d as you understand Him.
A non-observant Jew may sometimes feel that you are being holier-than-thou even when that is not at all what you feel. But goyim always respect a Jew who sticks to his tradition.
My sponsor and all of my non-Jewish friends in AA are VERY respecftul of my religion. In my hometown, everybody hugs at the end of the meetings. They have ZERO problem with the fact that I don't hug the ladies.
Not that he needs my endorsement, but I agree with the Rabbi for the most part. People will respect what you’re doing if you’re sticking to your convictions and trying to grow. If someone tells you that their own sobriety comes first, that’s wonderful. I am sure there are plenty of meetings you could go to that are not on Shabbat. Friday morning and other than a few months in the summer you could find a Saturday night meeting (after Shabbat) in most major cities. But I think we are digressing from the major point here. What is important is that you find a sponsor and start working the steps, so that you can get to the promises and enjoy your life again. Stop worrying about who the sponsor is and what other people think. Also it may be hard for some people to be a sponsor, that is Not on you, that’s on them, the 12th step tells us to work with others. If that’s difficult for someone, imagine how difficult it would be for them to stay sober on their own.
Looking forward to you phone call.
Definetly, in the winter time I plan to go after Shabbos starts and ends. Summer can be harder to make them.
I like the weekend meetings very much bec. in the past most of my drinking occured on weekends.
at the time, I attributed it to too much time. not always wanting to do the Friday night thing at home.
Now sober, I just get the fact that I have very frum children who need the Friday night rituals and look forward to them.
I have told them that I want to hear Divrei Torah from them and us going forward.
THis is positive bec. in the past I was just drunk at the meal and was not really there.
I am crying now, you guys are awesome.
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